February 28, 2020 by 2019-2020 Equity & Diversity Task Force

A conversation between Logan Heffelman, AIAS, and Sandra Madison, CEO and Chairperson of Cleveland, Ohio based architecture firm Robert P. Madison International. 

In being part of the Equity and Diversity Task Force, I am able to be surrounded by a diverse group of students all from different backgrounds and explore conversations that I wouldn’t have otherwise. In bringing attention to diversity in architecture, we tasked ourselves with highlighting members of the architecture community who emphasize the strengths of a diverse environment in hopes to inspire a more equitable and collaborative field. In celebration of Black History Month and Women’s History Month just around the corner, I looked at local inspiration Sandra Madison to have a discussion about her success as an architect.

 Logan:

In your words, what is Equity and how does it influence a work environment?

Sandra:

Treating people as you would want to be treated. Not showing favoritism, and meeting people where they are and being open and honest to elevate their skills. Not showing bias, but putting on blinders and not looking at the color of their skin or preconceived notions based on age or race, but looking at someone for who they are and what they bring to the table. I was at a NOMA convention and one firm wanted to increase diversity in their firm. So they did an experiment where they blocked out indicators of race, gender and the school attended etc., anything that may indicate the color of the applicants’ skin and they found that their hiring of minorities grew. Many times, biases are not intentional. We all have them.

Logan:

What are some strengths you see in having a diverse workforce? 

Sandra:

For me, it is the different ideas they bring to the table just based on cultural differences. We have employees from China, Bosnia and had employees from Africa, India, Yugoslavia, Egypt and Russia. They bring with them their culture, their experiences and a different way of solving design challenges. The same is true for people here in our own country. We all have different experiences just from our own cultural differences and the communities in which we live. It is interesting to hear different points of view; it is interesting to hear how close we are to being the same but with a twist. That keeps our profession fresh with ideas.

Logan:

Have you ever experienced an adverse professional environment and how did you get past it?

Sandra:

Yes I did. Early in my career, the first firm I worked for was open and nurturing. They were very willing to give you help and get you to that next level of your profession. But when the economy crashed, all employees were on two day weeks which made it hard to meet bills like student loans. I stayed as long as I could but had to move on. It was one of the hardest things I had to do because they were like family. They understood and wished me well and I am still in contact with many of the architects who worked there. The firm that I moved to was not a good fit. I felt stagnated, and it seemed that the contributions made by women were not valued. So I stayed there less than six months before moving on to another firm that valued my contributions.

Logan:

Do you think you face more challenges being a minority in architecture and how or what would you do to solve this challenge for future generations?

Sandra:

It’s a challenging question because sometimes I do not know if it is because I am female or because I am Black or both.  I think about this often. Females in general in this profession, are often not valued by some firms because they are single, or married or single and getting married.  The impression I believe is that these firm owners have the impression that single women or married women are going to get married, have children and their focus is going to change and therefore women are not given challenging work or promotions.  When it comes to the color of my skin, there are sometimes preconceived notions that our contributions are not of value. I think that this is slowly changing or at least I hope it is. So it is important that you know yourself and value who you are and your contributions and find a firm that will do the same.  Everyone is unique. It is important that you find your niche and don’t let anybody box you in.

“There may be some firms where the culture does not fit who you are and you do not feel valued. That environment may work fine for others but not for you. You will have to decide if this is the right place for you and if it is not, move on. Find a place where you feel good about going to work.”

Logan:

You are originally from the Baltimore area, did you notice a difference in studio/working 

culture in architecture between Baltimore and Cleveland?

Sandra:

It is difficult to tell because I only worked in one office in Cleveland but it was a culture shock because Cleveland to me felt as if it was not as current or up to date as Baltimore when I first moved here. As far as styles, ways of thinking and technology. It was interesting because for example I couldn’t wear pants to work or had to wear my hair a certain way. I didn’t really agree with that so I worked to change that, bringing pants to work, wearing my natural hair, and eventually it was okay. I worked to set a standard, to raise the bar so to speak.

Logan:

In the 1980’s Iceland passed a law that required companies to give their women employees six months of maternity leave after they have a child and in the year 2000 the word “paternity” was added. Running a firm I am sure requires a lot of decision making and I was wondering do you think architecture as a profession would be hindered by this decision if it were required in the United States or would this actually benefit by allowing women the security to be in a more time demanding career, thus increasing diversity among the field? 

Sandra:

I have two children who are now adults, so I remember when they were born.  I did not have the opportunity to work from home. Working from home was not an option at that time because the technology was not available. At that time, I was given six weeks of maternity leave plus any vacation days that I had. I respect family time because families are important and should take precedent over work. Family leave is harder on smaller firms than larger firms because absorbing the loss of a member on a team will be felt substantially more because of the number of employees. However, you want that employee to feel comfortable returning when they are back from maternity leave so giving them flexibility is appreciated by young parents. Our firm does offer working from home in situations like this.

Logan:

Being a mother, being a female architect, what kind of specific advice would you give to other female architects or any students going into architecture? 

Sandra:

I would say, know yourself and your worth.  I was recently on a panel discussing how women do not ask for the same income that men ask for. I am not sure if this is due to what women have been taught, that they are not worth as much as a male, or if it is cultural.  There were four girls in my family and we were taught to not underestimate our worth. Do your research and don’t be afraid to ask for a raise. If you feel you are not being compensated for the work you provide after a discussion with your superiors, then move on.  Don’t let firms box you in and pay you a salary based solely on the number of years that you have been in the profession. The number of years in the profession may not an indicator of what you are worth. So know your value, know what you bring to the firm and don’t let anyone box you in.

“Value yourself. Know what makes you happy. ”

Logan:

What is your favorite part about being an Architect? 

Sandra:

The challenge of different design types, you never know what you are going to get. It could be the same building type but different site, Nothing is ever the same. For me, I get bored when things are the same over and over again, that change and unpredictability is exciting.

Logan:

From what I understand and can see, there is change in the working environment in becoming more diverse and accepting of different cultures and backgrounds but architecture still seems to be stuck in its majority ways (being predominantly white male) Do you think there is anything that could be done to help influence or push for more diversity and inclusion within the architecture field, or is this just something that will take time? 

Sandra:

Diversity is going to take time. The percentages currently are extremely low but to make strides, minorities in the profession would have to outnumber majorities in high percentages and that is not realistic. There are several organizations outside of the AIA, such as NOMA, as well as firms, that are working to increase minorities in Architecture by exposing children in elementary schools to the profession. Children visit doctor’s offices, dentist offices, and see Construction workers on job sites in their neighbourhood but not many know who we are or what we do as a profession. Many times when I ask an elementary student what an Architect does, the response is that we build buildings. I am on the Architecture, Construction and Engineering (ACE) Mentor Program Board. We introduce students to ACE professions and award scholarships to students in the ACE fields. We have found that fewer students are entering the Architecture profession in relationship to the Construction and Engineering professions. The AIA, NOMA, ACE and other organizations are trying to change that by exposing students to our profession at an earlier age.

“This was fun.” -Sandra Madison, AIA

Article by Logan Heffelman, AIAS Kent State University and member of the AIAS National Equity and Diversity Task Force.